GMAN-GAMES: Loco Roco

Pass it on

Comments: 1 [2]

I should have known

Damn it! I was at the TGS yesterday and saw that game but my brain didn't make the connection with the entries of this PSP game developper!

It looks good, shiny, fun to play, I'm really looking forward to put a hand on it. Good job

posted by bikokoSeptember 17, 2005 at 23:29 [ e ]

Nice Game!

Sweet!! I also saw that game yesterday in the PSP section right by the Katamari Damacy game. I got to play it too, it's impression was really nice. Congrats man, you should be really happy to have made such a nice product. It's contol scheme is really simple too, so CUTE!! I took a photo of it, even though I wasnt supposed too.. haha. because I liked it so much. That was the only place where I violated the no photos rule!

[IMG]http://i19.photobucket.com/a
lbums/b189/mcrimmel/Tokyo%20
Game%20Show%202005/IMG_1234S
mall.jpg[/IMG]

posted by MattSeptember 18, 2005 at 0:05 [ e ]

No wait.. here it is!

Sorry.. wrong link!

http://i19.photobucket.com/a
lbums/b189/mcrimmel/Tokyo%20
Game%20Show%202005/IMG_1234S
mall.jpg

posted by MattSeptember 18, 2005 at 0:07 [ e ]

Looks unique

Hey Greg,

First off, it was a pleasure meeting you several Thursday nights ago. I was one of the two new faces who was visiting at the time. When you mentioned you were working on a PSP game, I didn't imagine it would be something as wild and unique as this. That one screenshot looks great, and the impressions I've read of it sound even better. I wish I had stuck around for the show so I could have seen more.

It may be too early to tell, but do you know if Sony has any plans to localize this game?

Great meeting you once again, and congrats on what looks like a very promising and original game.

posted by AmerSeptember 18, 2005 at 3:46 [ e ]

rock on. and otsukare

posted by alien8September 18, 2005 at 8:02 [ e ]

looks great

I saw a video of it and the game looks great, but it reminded me of a game called Gish http://www.chroniclogic.com/
index.htm?gish.htm. Has anyone on your team played this game? If not, you should download the demo and see what I mean.

So when is the game coming out and do you know if it will get a US release or not? Also if a US release is unlikely will the game be import friendly by not containing too much japanese?

posted by sammyjojoSeptember 18, 2005 at 12:21 [ e ]

I can tell you the team is doing it's best to make it very easy to localize including using as little text as possible but it's up to SCEA if it ships in America and SCEE if it ships in Europe and I think TGS is the first they've heard of it. Hopefully the buz will help it get a yes. I can say Phil Harrison, head of all Sony development stopped by on Wednesday to check it out and had to be pulled away because he couldn't stop playing

posted by greggmanSeptember 18, 2005 at 12:22 [ e ]

Here's a video

For any of you that haven't seen it, this is the video that I saw. http://files.pspupdates.com/
cgi-bin/cfiles.cgi?0,0,0,0,10,13
05, it goes through the whole stage so it's like 7 minutes long.

posted by sammyjojoSeptember 18, 2005 at 12:40 [ e ]

nice

That looks really nice, it must be great to work on a title where gameplay is the foremost concern and great graphics and physics are just a side effect of that

Nice one Gregg, hope it gets released in the UK.

posted by uk_designer_mattSeptember 18, 2005 at 13:35 [ e ]

I'm sorry I missed it.

I saw the stations for it while I was waiting in line to try out Katarmari on the PSP. Stupidly, I didn't go play it since I'd never heard of it before and didnt' know what it was. :(

Any idea how long it'll be before it comes out?

posted by DrewSeptember 18, 2005 at 19:06 [ e ]

Seems rather reminiscent of Gish:
http://www.chroniclogic.com/
gish.htm

posted by anonSeptember 19, 2005 at 3:30 [ e ]

LocoRoco looks gorgeous.
Anon, as you pointed out, I think there's a trend: Gish (PC), Mercury (PSP), LocoRoco (PSP) - and hmm, a certain game I'm working on too - all share some similitudes and a nice usage of physics. Also see Rag Doll Kung Fu (PC), very different in gameplay, but built over a physic engine (although fairly simple).

posted by OmarSeptember 19, 2005 at 5:10 [ e ]

Hmm, maybe not so different

I'm not sure about the final game, but from that short video (posted a link a few comments back) that I watched there seemed to be a decent amount of similar gameplay elements between Gish and Loco Roco. Enough to make me think that someone had to have played or seen Gish before making Loco Roco. If you don't think so, you need to watch the video and then play the demo of Gish. I'm still really looking forward to Loco Roco, so this isn't a bash at the game or not, I was just curious if anyone on the Loco Roco team had seen/played Gish before making their game.

posted by sammyjojoSeptember 19, 2005 at 11:42 [ e ]

The short answer is no. We didn't play or see Gish before starting to make LocoRoco. We had our first working prototype of our game in June 2004. I think Gish came out around August 2004. Hopefully we'll be able to show that prototype. It's got some interesting stuff in it.

posted by greggmanSeptember 20, 2005 at 0:21 [ e ]

this looks like something which could be a truly wonderful game.

keep up the good work, and keep those levels inventive and challenging :)

posted by pupuSeptember 20, 2005 at 19:04 [ e ]

It's funny because I red your "Best Game Ever" post just a few days before the TGS and later when I saw a video of Loco Roco I thought: "This is exactly the game Greggman is working on". :)

Well, kudos to you and your team. Hope to try that soon.

posted by NekoSeptember 21, 2005 at 17:38 [ e ]

Hi Greggman,
It's my first comment here but I read your articles since... Years!
I remember at some point you seemed upset with the idea to keep working within the game industry. And now you work happily on what could be one of the most original game ever!
The art direction looks tremendous too!
Who are the people who came up with such a nice concept? Can you tell us how its started?
By the way I will be in Tokyo in November, if you have some time to talk with a french game developper I would be happy to drink a Sapporo with you!

posted by XavierSeptember 23, 2005 at 4:06 [ e ]

In a word: BITER

Loco Roco is a complete rip-off of my good friend Edmund Mcmillen's game. Is it a requirement when building a game for the bloated and corrupt Sony corporation that you must rip-off as much cool stuff as possible? I was one of the level designers on Gish and a close associate of Mr. Mcmillen's and I from that position I can firmly state that the game you have been working on is a full-blown rip-off of Gish. I remember beta-testing Gish in early 2004, when the physics system and basic gameplay (which you state is completely original and pre-dates Gish) were already in place and had been since the begining of the year. I'd seriously like to see the version of the game from back in that time-period and see if the gameplay isn't drastically different since your sugar-daddies at Sony got wind of Gish's seminal gameplay mechanics. come on man, don't bullshit everyone there is no way in HELL this is just a coincedence. The blob may be painted but his physics are EXACTLY the same as Gish, and he even collects the same sort of items which make a very similiar sound to the ambers that Gish collects. This game is basically a dumbed-down mainstream kiddie-crap version of Gish, which was dark bloody, and edgy.

As if it wasn't enough to rip off one original independant game, you threw in ripped-off elements of Katamari Damacy into the game as well. This is so typical of a large money-grubbing corporation such as Sony.

I will do everything in my power to boycott this project, as your development team has clearly created a great injustice on a viciously original game, and it's creator who is one of my best friends. You'd be surprised how much influence us independant game developers actually have, for example I am good friends with the people who run Newgrounds.com and Tom Fulp who was the programmer and co-created of console hit "Alien Hominid".

This is a travesty and the only relief I experience from this is I have no doubt in my mind that this game will turn out a sub-par gameplay experience and most discerning gamers will see which game came first.

posted by CaulderSeptember 25, 2005 at 20:54 [ e ]

The only influence from any physics for LocoRoco is this site

It's funny to me how people think ideas are ripoffs. The guy that designed Lords of the Rising Sun used to think every game that had a old world Japanese theme was a rip off of this ideas. Microprose's founder used to think any game about submarines was a ripoff of Silent Service. Especially because any game about subs is going to have a periscope screen, a sonar screen, a ocean map, etc making the games all have certain similarities.

There's more incommon between Doom, Half Life, Unreal, Resident Evil, Tomb Raider, Max Payne, Grand Theft Auto and Quake than there is between LocoRoco and the Gish. All those games feature a male main character who you directly control. All those games the main character carries and uses guns and shoots baddies. All those games you walk around in and around buildings. All of those games have crates to blow open, All of those games you pick up weapons lying around. All of those games have blood in them.

The only similarities between LocoRoco and Gish are they both feature blobs using spring mass physics. Other games that feature blobs, Puyo Puyo, Kirby, Lolo, Jellyboy, The Ooze.... In the Gish you control the main character directly. In LocoRoco you only control the tilt of the level, there are up to 20 main characters on the screen at once each of which have A.I. and you have no direct control over them.

Trying playing the game before assuming it's copy just because the main character is a blob. You'll see they have little if anything in common.

posted by greggmanSeptember 25, 2005 at 22:21 [ e ]

Who are you kidding?

I don't know what's worse, your ripping-off Gish in broad daylight, or your insisting in broad daylight that you didn't.

Even your historical comparisons are skewed. The guy who wrote the first (commercially viable) submarine simulator calling ever other that followed a ripoff is a hundred lightyears away from stealing Gish, the way you did. The central idea of Gish is the gelatinous blob and the physics-laiden terrains it negotiates. That's pretty darned unprecedented stuff - nothing like borrowing from the real world to make a simluation. Your work is clearly derrivative at best, and you're too smart not to know it.

I'm not saying what you did is wrong - all good creators borrow great ideas. You just need to be a little more honest with everyone (yourself included) about where your source material comes from.

posted by MartySeptember 26, 2005 at 8:42 [ e ]

Can't believe I hear that.
Most people would agree that Gish is a great and innovative game (I bought it first day I saw it). But in no way you can call ripoff a game because it features a blob and a bit of simple physic. Physic is becoming more and more used in games, and will be in the future. Deforming a blob this way is near trivial, many people have done so in personal demos, you can past code from http://www.gamasutra.com/res
ource_guide/20030121/jacobso
n_01.shtml and you have it. What matter is building a full game over it. Gish did it right, Loco Roco seems to do it right, but they are just as different as two 2D/3D platformers may be.

posted by OmarSeptember 26, 2005 at 9:37 [ e ]

Look at PSP Mercury and see if your arguments fits: "gelatinous blob and the physics-laiden terrains it negotiates". Yet Mercury is very different as well. A common ground between Gish and Loco Roco is that they are platformers, but then, Gish didn't invent the genre either.

posted by OmarSeptember 26, 2005 at 9:39 [ e ]

What's worse you your insistance that I'm lying. No, we didn't look at the Gish for inspiration. In fact we were disappointed when it came out because we wanted to be first and we knew there would be people like you who no matter what we said would assume otherwise. We already had a working demo before Gish was released. I'd post some pictures of it but unfortunately that demo has features that will ship in LocoRoco that no one as seen yet and we don't want to give those ideas away. I'm sure as soon as LocoRoco ships there will be no issue in posting movies of that demo. In fact if possible I'd like to just post the actual PC demo when LocoRoco ships, It's fun to play with. I'll beg TPTB but unfortunately it's not up to me.

posted by greggmanSeptember 26, 2005 at 10:30 [ e ]

Just so you know

Gish first went public in early march of 2004 at GDC when it was a finalist in that years IGF (later going on to win the grand prize in 2005) but chronic logic was taking pre orders via hype from an online beta trailer that was making its way around the net as early as dec. 2003 when gish was publicized at a finalist for IGF.

oh and I believe that gish was officialy released late april early may of 2004.

posted by EddySeptember 26, 2005 at 17:16 [ e ]

The first I heard of the Gish was when some article was posted on Slashdot about indie games and one of that games in article linked to was The Gish. I don't know the exact day, I only know at that point in time we already had a working demo.

Sony is a big company and unlike indies we have to convince management to fund projects so even though we had a working demo and even though those of us involved thought it was the coolest thing ever the first 2 producers approached rejected it and it took around 9 months from the first working demo until the first real funding happened and another 3 months after that to get approval to actually have team and yet another 3 months after that to get approval to make a shipping product. That was 2 months ago.

What I find incredible is that people can't imagine someone could see this demo which has been up for at least 5 years and not get an idea for a game featuring spring-mass blobs independently. I admit Gex is inspired by Mario and Sonic. I admit Crash Team Racing is basically a well done ripoff of Mario Kart. But LocoRoco seriously had ZERO inspiration from The Gish however good a game it might be.

posted by greggmanSeptember 26, 2005 at 20:16 [ e ]

haha I hope no one buys this

How much more pathetic can you get sony. If it's not bad enough that you steal everything from nintendo you also steal concepts from indies. The upside of all this Is that gish will get tonsof publicity for your pathetic act and eventually drown out ur game as a rip from another persons idea (again). Don't take this personally but I hope the PS3 flops as bad as the PSP and you have to declare bankrupcy.

Good Day.

posted by MusicianSeptember 27, 2005 at 0:33 [ e ]

Good ideas are a dime a dozen. If u can come up wt a good idea, there will probably be around 10 ppl would hav thought of it already. Its not about who can come up with it faster, its who can implement it better. That is why we have this thing called patent ;).

posted by nekokunSeptember 27, 2005 at 1:11 [ e ]

Bah, Gish is just a ripoff of a turd rolling down a hill. Nature, as always, sets the precedent.

posted by MantaRayvsGuitarSeptember 27, 2005 at 4:08 [ e ]

gish is a ripoff of maclean's mercury!

The people who made gish think its original, but its not. maclean's mercury was about a 3d deformable blob you controlled, very similiar to what gish tried to accomplish. Not only that, but gish is an uninspiring game graphics wise, the characters and levels(especially the levels) have no creativity to them. oh well, what can you expect from a bunch of no-pay indie developers?

posted by guyinAMERICASeptember 27, 2005 at 11:45 [ e ]

Gish came out long befor mercury, and didnt gish also win game of the year ad gdc?

posted by WikSeptember 27, 2005 at 15:42 [ e ]

What CAN one expect from a bunch of no-pay indie developers?

Original ideas maybe?

posted by CaulderSeptember 27, 2005 at 19:59 [ e ]

Please don't bash indie developers. They rock! And in fact I encourage you to go play and buy the Gish. It looks fun.

As for LocoRoco, I'll let the game speak for itsself. I think after you've actually played it you'll see it is original.

posted by greggmanSeptember 27, 2005 at 22:44 [ e ]

When an Idea's time has come

When an idea's time has come it is inevitable that multiple people will think of it independently. You see this happen with inventions in science and engineering: the calculus by Newton and Leibniz, the telephone by Bell and that other guy (accessing Internet…) Elisha Gray. The time for physics based game mechanics has definitely arrived and spring-based blobs are one example of this.

What does it mean to say “an idea’s time has come?” It means that the elements of the idea, the pieces of the puzzle if you will, are laid out for many people to see. It still takes creativity and work to put them together but with enough eyeballs seeing the same elements, it is highly likely that more than one creative person will come up with the same idea or close variants.

Let’s just hope nobody tries to patent the idea of a spring based blob. All game players would be the poorer for it. If Elisha Gray had been allowed to compete with Bell instead of being shut out by the patent system then I think we would be far more advanced in our communication technology today. At least we would have had push button dialing, call waiting and caller ID a lot sooner, not to mention options other than black for telephones.

I think we are seeing the independent invention phenomenon here with Loco Roco and Gish. It’s a shame to see the character bashing and ill will arising from it. I wish both products and their creators well and hope for more innovation like this in the games industry.

posted by JohnAlvaradoSeptember 28, 2005 at 14:07 [ e ]

Kids And Their "Opinions"...

...are not worth wasting time over.

Congrats on working on such a cool project Gregg! I tried Gish and though it was neat, it was still basically a platformer with a tar-ball and bad play control (when you're jumping around, it feels too "floaty"). It was neat, but not worth buying. Loco Roco looks cool though! Has elements of Sonic, and tons more. (Oo crap, I shouldn't compare it to Sonic--what will the fanboys think!)

I had a similar idea I came up with in '94. I tell you about it in email. Loco Roco surpasses my idea by about 1000 times.

To everyone bashing this: No idea is ever 100% original, and if people could not build and improve on other ideas, we'd all still be throwing rocks around and living in caves.

posted by RayBOctober 1, 2005 at 0:44 [ e ]

GISH Borrowing gameplay (not physics) from this title?

Didn't GISH "borrow" it's gameplay (not physics) from this SNES title?

http://www.vgmuseum.com/imag
es/snes05/supermorph.html

(SNES "SuperMorph").

- Anonnanana

posted by anonnananaOctober 2, 2005 at 15:08 [ e ]

Official website is up

http://www.playstation.jp/sc
ej/title/locoroco/ - I can't wait

posted by uk_designer_mattOctober 4, 2005 at 15:29 [ e ]

Views

Nice blog.I like this.
Nick
http://www.yahoo.com

posted by NickOctober 5, 2005 at 6:35 [ e ]

Awesome

I plan to import this once it's released in Japan. Maybe I'll buy two copies just to help cover this three-man "boycott" ;)

Can't wait, Gregg. Keep up the good work.

posted by ColdPieOctober 9, 2005 at 14:25 [ e ]

Loco roco demo

First of all, sorry for my bad english!

Let me know, it is possible to get a playable Loco Roco demo? Or it was just for those persons who meeted the sony vehicle in Ginza?

posted by MaccJanuary 18, 2006 at 8:25 [ e ]

As far as I know it's not currently possible to play the Locoroco demo outside of Japan. Sorry

posted by greggmanJanuary 18, 2006 at 11:08 [ e ]

I think the main problem many of us "kids" have is that there's an important difference between a work legitimately building on the same idea/borrowing ideas/etc. and ripping off an idea, and that difference is how the work is presented and perceived.

When there IS a common thread between your work and that of others, some sort of acknowledgement of that fact is usually in order. If you're not aware of this similarity, then you should perhaps be more literate in the medium you're working in.

"No idea is ever 100% original, and if people could not build and improve on other ideas, we'd all still be throwing rocks around and living in caves."

Of course we all agree with this point, and i don't think anyone's arguing about that; the real issue is that if you know of someone who has independently developed something similar to you, it's only polite to address this fact, refer to them, etc.. otherwise you give the impression that you're self-concious about something.. possibly the fact that you've behaved in an immoral way.

No matter how different the gameplay of Loco Roco is, there are also certain similarities which i'm sure the developer was aware of; not addressing these similarities just rubs some people the wrong way.

posted by RaiganFebruary 27, 2006 at 13:25 [ e ]

there are also certain similarities which i'm sure the developer was aware of

Aware after the fact or before? The team certainly was not aware of the Gish before LocoRoco already had a working demo.

It's far sadder to me that people assume things are related when in reality so little connects them. Is Super Mario a rip off of Pac Land? Both feature a character that walks and jump and levels that scroll from left to right so clearly Super Mario was influenced by Pac Land which came out 1 or 2 years before Super Mario. Have you seen all the articles were fanboys complain that Miyamoto didn't give enough mention of Pac Land being an influence for Super Mario? There are none and I doubt it ever was any true influence of Pac Land on Super Mario.

You need to realize the fact that a spring mass system suggests a blobby Kirby like character to pretty much anyone that has made one.

Here's one, and another, here's another, and another, and another, and yet another and I'm sure I could find 50 more. In fact, making blobby spring things is an assignment at many university computer courses.

It's more interesting that more spring mass blobby characters haven't already been made.

So, we will 100% acknowledge our true influences (the simulations) but we will not lie to you about things that had no influence (the Gish) just because you happen to think they did. Play the game and I think you'll see there are not even remotely close to each other. What rubs me the wrong way is that you can't except the truth.

posted by greggmanFebruary 27, 2006 at 22:53 [ e ]

This mess makes me sad...

I happen to really like Gish, and I'm so sorry to see this much bitterness over a game that I might also really like. I does seem to me that some of the mechanics place Gish and Loco Roco in the same genre, but so what? Is Unreal a Quake ripoff? Their similarities are vastly greater than these, at least as far as I can tell from the Loco Roco demo video. Carmack could have chosen to be really pissed at the Epic guys, but as I understand, he has a very high opinion of Tim Sweeney.
Don't be angry, people. More good games is always a good thing, and honestly, shouldn't we wait for the game to actually *come out* before trashing the guy's work? This reminds me of some "Ain't It Cool News" talkback boards (and that's a bad thing), with angry fans bitching about the new Battlestar Galactica ripping off Star Trek Voyager, and other nonsense.
I want my good games to coexist. C'mon, let's give this one a chance. We can always complain later.

posted by MateSrsenMarch 6, 2006 at 10:27 [ e ]

Gish does not eual Loco Roco

I read this entire debate/rant and I have played and love Gish.Loco Roco is different. Dynamic music, art style, controls. Totally different. Plus in Loco Roco you are the planet not the blob. I can't wait for Loco Roco to make its US debut.What is stopping Sony from releasing game demos online?Why only PSP Spots?

posted by JackalApril 16, 2006 at 2:18 [ e ]

Demo is out!!!

Demo is out on the official LocoRoco site. Downloaded it last night, and LOVE IT. This is an awesome game, and left me thinking "if only every PSP game could be this fun and innovative." Go check out the demo now everyone!!! (requires firmware version 2.70)

posted by billyApril 25, 2006 at 17:41 [ e ]

This game is AWESOME

I just downloaded the demo (after viewing the videos and screens for months), and man, this game is addictive! And you say that there's more we don't know about? I'm definitely buying this game!

And seriously, if the developer keeps saying that Gish was not an influence (and it probably wasn't, considering Gish is very different), it isn't. Would they go to that length to convince you that an independant game did not have any influence on a game? No. Just play the demo, and you'll see how different it is. I actually think it's alot more fun (probably because I can play it portably, with a very well-built control scheme) than Gish, as fun as Gish is. And guys, do you see ANYONE from the Gish developer team or their forums complaining about how Loco Roco has a similar concept? No, you know why? Because a billion games have similar concepts. Do you know how many generic FPSs and 3D Platformers there are out there? At least 400. A game that was TRULY ripped off of another is Perfect Dark off of GoldenEye 64, or Banjo-Kazooie off ofSuper Mario 64 (which happened to all be loads of fun). You're basically trying to say that the stool was a ripoff of the chair. Just stop complaining about how X game might be a ripoff of Y game, and PLAY THEM.

posted by retroApril 26, 2006 at 10:01 [ e ]

play it first

everyone just stfu and play the demo before you bash sony as copycats. if loco roco is a copy of some nintendo game, it is nintendos fault. the whole company has been going down the tubes (ironic huh?) since gamecube came out and sony is taking its place. the PSP, which I am typing this on, has far from failed, and is second to the DS only because most gamers are young.and.cant.play.complex.
games._80%.of.psp.owners.are
.over.the.age.of.18._the.PS3
.will.not.fail.because.of.su
perior.ORIGINAL.games.wii?.f
.that

posted by RobinMay 7, 2006 at 0:59 [ e ]

demo

to get the demo, google "loco roco" and find the link that has japanese characters and dl in part of the url. there is a button next to the name of the site that says "translate" (still on google). this translates the site to engrish. (not a typo, you'll see). click it. follow the directions

posted by RobinMay 7, 2006 at 1:12 [ e ]

Brilliant!

Loco Roco is one great game, i can get through the level with 19...loco rocos? Can you release a new demo please, or if there are several, give the links here.
Anyway, this is definately not a rip off of Gish, so before anyone jumps to conclusions, play the demo first.

posted by LFFMay 7, 2006 at 14:17 [ e ]

LocoRoco getting some love in Finland

Wanted to email you, but the repeated warnings really got me scared so I opted not to, gimme an email once you get a chance Gregg. Check this out
http://www.pelaajalehti.com/
web/peliuutiset/pelaajalehti
_45_kesakuu_ilmestyy_loppuvi
ikosta/

posted by RiotPelaajaJune 4, 2006 at 11:03 [ e ]

[ Add Comment: ]

1 [2]

[ Forum: ]

All images not copyright me copyright their respective companies. Everything else copyright me.