Feature / Bug Tracking Software
Do any game development teams use any bug tracking software or feature tracking software?

I read Joelonsoftware.com and he goes on about how awesome his product, FogBugz is.

It sounds like a good idea but I'm wondering if anyone else has any experience with anything at all. In fact using FogBugz for product management sounds like a good idea as well, you just submit entires as requests rather than bugs and it will track them and keep the people that need to know aware of their responsibilities.

I know there is for example BugZilla which is an open source product. I also know that based on Joel's comments it sucks. Having tried to enter some bugs in Mozilla's bug list before I can say that basically he's right. It's got a terribly poor and massively complicated interface only an open source programmer could have thought up.

If you have not you read up on FogBugz please check it out to give you and idea of why you might want something like this if it's not already clear. Here's also why it's supposedly better.. I don't bring those up as a sales pitch for FogBugz, I bring them up because they point to a way of doing development, tracking features and bugs, and automating the process of who has responsibility for implementing features or fixing issues. That kind of stuff is sometimes handled by a producer in games but more often than not it's all pretty adhoc. It would be nice to have a system that worked and got used.

Also, even if you don't use a bug/feature tracking system do any of you use anything more for scheduling? Joel recommends just using Excel. I'm not sure, I can see spending 2 or 3 weeks just entering in the million small tasks it takes to make a game. Anyone use MS:Project? I never could figure out MS:Project. It seemed like a huge waste of time. Do any of you use it and do you acutally find it useful or is it more like you use it because you think others will think you aren't doing your job if you don't? Others recommend "Agile Development/SCRUM" where you only schedule a month at a time. Have any of you tried that?

I'd love to hear your stories and recommendations.



Pass it on

Comments:
I've used Bugzilla, and it can be cumbersome. However, if you're budget can't justify another prodcut, well, it is a solution. As for MS Project, I used Project 98 for some time, because that's all that I needed. I never did like the newer versions and wound up using a Outlook and or Excel.
posted by LeoNovember 18, 2004 at 11:53 [ e ]
We use fogBugz here for both bugs and feature requests. Simple, easy to use and very effective.

For project scheduling, we use Excel and schedule everything in week increments.
posted by DidsNovember 18, 2004 at 12:00 [ e ]
The previous studio I worked for used FogBUGZ and I really didn't like it too much. It could have easily been a very old version. But it was entirely browser based and had some annoyances (I can't recall them easily).

The current studio I work for uses TestTrack Pro once we hit Alpha and it's not too bad. I vaguely remember using ClearQuest (maybe at EA?), but nothing stands out about it.

I'd like to try out the Job stuff in Perforce. But it seems like it would require the entire team to cooperate to make the most of it.
posted by PaulNovember 18, 2004 at 13:54 [ e ]
Inspired by Joel's article Getting Things Done When You're Only a Grunt, I tried to get our team to use FogBUGZ a couple of years ago and thought that it was a fantastic product -- very easy to set up, very intuitive to use, it just worked.  Unfortunately, some of the other team members were kind of lackluster about using it and the boss at that time didn't really penalize people for NOT using it, so it kind of died a slow death.

Then, when the company hired a new CIO-type guy to come in and take over the department, he liked FogBUGZ at first and I thought it might get a second chance, but after a few months, he ended up replacing it with a horrible product from Intuit called "TrackIt" because he wanted all the pointy-haired-boss "employee metrics" type reporting features that Joel has deliberately left out of FogBUGZ because he thinks that tracking people in those kind of ways has too many negative side effects.  (people tend to work to improve their statistics rather than working to improve their projects once you start hassling them about creating too many bugs, etc)

The achilles heel of all defect tracking software is that it's worthless if people don't use it religiously.  This seems obvious, but amazingly, people just don't seem to get it.

In my experience, the main reason that people don't want to use defect tracking software is that they don't want to admit that there are defects in their software!  Seriously.  Some people will literally spend more time quibbling over whose fault something is and whether something is a bug or a user misunderstanding or a poor design forced on them by someone else, blah blah blah than it would have actually taken to just solve whatever problem is being reported in the first place.  These types of people seem to perceive products like FogBUGZ as personal attacks on their competency as developers rather than as tools to help organize all the layers of complexity involved with making good software -- information that nobody can possibly keep track of in their heads and on random post-it notes.  For this reason, defect tracking software that is geared toward creating performance reports on people just makes the situation even worse because these same people who are ruled by their egos will be even more worried about looking bad if the software makes it easy for the manager to compare everyone.

Anyway...*if* you work on a mature, professional team who will use it, FogBUGZ really is hard to beat.  I think it strikes a great balance between being flexible and feature-rich, yet uncluttered and non-intrusive.  I really like the way it keeps a chronological log of all the steps that have taken place in the process of fixing a particular issue, and it does a great job of making it easy for team members to pool their knowledge into one consolidated place.  It is nice that all you need is a web browser to access it so that you can log in from any workstation on your network and even access it from home if you host the installation on the web.  Another benefit to having the bug reports in a web format is that it is makes it easy to insert in-line screen shots and scroll through very long lists with lots of repro steps, etc.  Some other programs such as TrackIt make this sort of information hellish to navigate because you have to fight with/be limited by their clunky interface...

One last point I might add is that if the lack of statistical reporting would be a strike against FogBUGZ in your organization, keep in mind that all the data it tracks is in SQL server, so it would be fairly trivial to make your own reports using some other tool if you really, really had to.   But please don't...
posted by bionicroachNovember 18, 2004 at 21:33 [ e ]
more than bugs I'm looking for a todo list

I just wanted to make it clear that more than tracking bugs I'm more interested in something to track todo lists for everyone.  Up to this point I've only seen this done two ways.

(1) it's just not done.  Everybody pretty much does their own thing.  At most companies this doesn't work and the project is late.  If everyone is exceptional then it can work which was the case at Naughty Dog it seems but obviously that's the exception

(2) the producer does it by hand.  At Shiny, Stuart Roch at the time decided to manage our project since no one else actually was.  The system he used then was everyone had a shared text file on the net (gregg.txt, lori.txt) etc.  Stuart would add things to do, you'd check your list and add comments to each one (done, "not mine talk to bob", "waiting for little green man animation from joe", etc.).  Stuart would then read the files once or twice a day and pass on the info to each person.  (i.e, in the above case he'd add to bob's list the thing commented as "talk to bob" and in joe's list he might ask "any eta on that little green man anim".)

It worked or seemed to.  FogBugz seems like it would kind of automate a lot of that. 

Unfortunately, being on an international team I need two things.  I need a localized version of FogBugz.  They don't have this currently although provide a way to do it yourself but I'd like to test it first and I can't currently in Japanese.  On top of which I need to be able to select the language per user but they only have it setup per installation.  I suppose given that it's probably mostly ASP based it would be easy to hack to have a per-user language setting but in either case I'd like to take advantage of some kind of trial run first.  I know I would not be able to get my company to fork over the money without first giving it a try in Japanese.

posted by greggmanNovember 19, 2004 at 1:37 [ e ]
I liked using FogBugz as a to-do list -- I thought it worked quite well.  In fact when some of my coworkers started slacking off on using FogBugz to track bugs as I mentioned in my earlier post, I still continued to use the system to manage my tasks.  One of the features I found useful is the "dispatcho" service that listens for incoming emails, because this actually allowed me to just email notes to FogBugz and have them automatically create a new "case" (or task list for this purpose) or get appended to an existing case.  When people ask me to do something, I usually try to get them to email me about it rather than just mentioning it off the cuff in the hallway or whatever, and that way, I can just forward their request right into FogBugz as well.

Basically, the workflow you described in #2 is exactly what FogBugz does in a more automatic and easier to organize way.  I really like being able to have a chronological list of "notes to self" on a particular task, because I often find myself thinking about something I have to do even when I don't really have time right then to work on it, and whenever I have an idea that I don't want to forget, I can easily update the "case" in FogBugz and go back later to jog my memory.

I can't really give you any feedback on how hard it would be to implement the language features that you need, but I did actually end up "hacking" a few things here and there that bothered me, and as you said, it was really pretty easy to do because other than the email service, the whole product is just an ASP web site.  In fact, the code behind it is really very simple.  What you're really paying for is the thought that went into designing the workflow of the product, I suppose.

At the time we bought FogBugz, Joel was offering a free online trial where you run the product on their server instead of your own.  I don't know if they are still doing that or not, but if they are, you might want to try emailing Joel if you haven't already and see if he'd be willing to let you also test localization that way.  I don't know if I've just happened to catch him when he wasn't that busy, but Joel has always been very responsive to my email requests about his products...
posted by bionicroachNovember 20, 2004 at 20:57 [ e ]
Respect Request

Dear Sirs and Madames:

I have read through the Blog/Wiki/Forum and was glad to find content relevant in nature.  My company has recently released a full featured issue tracking, defect tracking and knowledge base system.  I would be greatly appreciative and like to respectfully request that a few members of our target audience (the webmasters and developers of the world) please consider http://www.issuebridge.com for review.  We would gladly reciprocate any published review or constructive criticism on the "Press" page of our company website.  I thank you in advance for your time and consideration to this matter.

Issue Tracking and Defect Tracking With IssueBridge

IssueBridge is a project management tool that improves the productivity of your project team by allowing project management staff and team members to access and delegate all of the issues within a project.  This user friendly and web based software product serves as an issue tracking and defect tracking system.  It enables your team to make clear each step needed to meet the overall goal of the project.

posted by JamesHurffJanuary 13, 2005 at 9:56 [ e ]